Legal to play ROMS?

[Auzern]

Greetings Everyone,

I have been searching for the answer to this one in a lot of websites. And after discovering this website, I get a better understanding of the whole issue.
Now according to this page,I need to at least own the original console right?
I am really confused at the moment. Is it legal to download ROMS of the games that I do not physically own for my console?
And also, if it is legal to download roms if I own the system, then I can download all the games for my system, right? I guess there is something wrong with this situation. Can anyone explain to me whats right and whats wrong?

Thanks in advance.
P.S. Since I just discovered this site today, the place is like a huge place for old computers and files for them. Awesome work!

[crustyasp46]

The legal issue is a grey area, open for discussion. But that being said, I can only speak for our site.

The roms on the site are those that have been abandoned and have no marketable value for the manufacturer. And thus the roms are offered for the enjoyment of those seeking to enjoy the games of yesteryear.It is not our intention to profit from these offerings, and all donation monies are used for the upkeep of the site. If anyone objected to any rom offered on the site, because of their ownership of the rom, it would be pulled from the archive.

Different countries have different rules to the use of roms. Generally speaking, a rom should never be downloaded for use, if you are taking profit away from a developer or a manufacturer.

Hope this answers your question.

Personally, I do not think the rom police will bother you, if you download from the site.

A warm welcome to the site from all of us at TOC.

[Auzern]

Thanks a lot for the reply, crustyasp46.

Now I have understood about downloading roms.
I too was thinking of something similar to your reply too.
If the production of the game has stopped and the console is outdated, downloading the rom and using it not for profit is not going to harm that company since it is not producing it anymore.
And there are so many people who would want to download this since the availability of the used games are very less compared to the demand (even overseas).

Even if you buy a used game from a seller online, the money that you are going to be giving will only be to the seller and not the producer.
And unless we are not making any profit by this for just our personal use and since they have even stopped producing the game, there is no harm to the company being done. So I see no point of illegal issues. Yes I would consider it illegal only I did not own the console. But in my case, I do and some of the games are not available anywhere online for sale.

I do consider my post is a bit controversial. But to be honest, I mean no harm to any company. Its just for the personal use and the lack of availability here. I have seen about Nintendo having its own law not to download roms. But I don't download their roms anyways. If the companies that have made the games earlier come out with a notice that roms should not be downloaded from any site then I guess, they have all the right to do that. But there are very few who are doing this. I guess even most of the companies do not have any problem for people playing their games which are out of production and out dated.

[Kherr]

The issue with roms is that technically they're not really legal, but since we're not harming companies by downloading and playing roms of systems and games that are no longer bringing profit, then we're not an issue and so we're left alone. So technically, you did not pay for the game, and since you've downloaded it and are playing it, it is TECHNICALLY piracy. But again, since we're not harming the companies involved with the production of genesis or nes games (or any other systems offered here) then we're not doing anything bad enough to be targeted by the Gov't for piracy... it's a really confusing area. But as crusty said:

Personally, I do not think the rom police will bother you, if you download from the site.

He's got a point. Do not let these issues impede with your browsing, downloading, and playing of games that are no longer bringing a profit to the companies that produced them.

Myself, mind you, I've been downloading and playing roms for over 10 years, so I believe that you are completely safe from any sort of legal issue. :3

Like you said, if it's not bringing a profit to yourself from downloading and playing the games, then there is no harm being done. In fact, it's really helping the current market out because people play the original metroid and find that they like the series, so they go buy the newest one for the Wii. So because they played a game that was no longer available and they found out they liked it, it brought more revenue to the company that makes the game. :3

I'm rambling now, so I'll stop.

[Auzern]

Well said, Kherr.

There are so many people who are having a doubt on this topic, guess if they search for it on this forum, then they too will understand it quite well. I totally agree with you on the revenue part.

More video game companies do need to realize this and not see it from a negative perspective; cause for a console and its games that are outdated, having digital copies of them does not harm their company from any angle as long as he/she keeps it for personal use and not for profit.

If the company did re-sell games for the old console, then everyone would just buy it instead of downloading it. Since they are not available in the market, we are left with no choice to play the old gold games.

Again, had an awesome and smart discussion to the topic. Great forum and great members. Thanks

[Hot Trout]

I have followed this topic and discussed it many times over the years on various forums and sites. In the eyes of most countries, downloading ROM images and even creating a ROM image of software that was created by a company is illegal and amounts to piracy, unless the company that owns the rights to the software, release the rights and make it available to the public. This has in the past and still does rather amazingly still happen.

Now although this is the case legally, many of the companies that hold the rights to old game titles are long since gone. Many were bought over and many just closed. In this case there is noone left to enforce copyright on a game. This is the case with many Commodore 64 games.

My personal stance is that the younger and future generations should have the right to see, play and enjoy these older games, many of which no longer have easy to find working hardware and therefore are almost impossible to buy and get working. For this reason, Rom images and Emulators are the only way to preserve them, and this will become increasingly the case as time goes on and surviving hardware and software becomes less available.

I love gaming and computing and the last thing that I would want to do is harm that industry, it is for that reason that we do not host any current systems roms, or indeed even last generation systems roms. We wait until a system has no measurable commercial value before deciding to add roms for it to our collection. This way we feel that their investment will be protected. We also are happy to and have already removed specific rom images that the copyright owners asked us to.

Rom and Emulators should be about seeing and playing old systems and games that you would never have the chance to play any other way. It should not be about getting loads of free games for your PS3 by pirating.

[Auzern]

Glad to see your post Hot Trout. Since you run the site, I do acknowledge the hard work you and your team have kept to have this site up and running with all the copyright laws that are out there.

I'm completely with you with everything that you have said in your above post. I still wonder why do some of the companies out their still see it as terms of an illegal issue. The game is out dated, no profit taken, no harm done, no on going production of the game and still they try to enforce their own laws so that people cannot download roms of out dated consoles. WE MEAN NO HARM TO THEM.

By the way, I really like the interface and resource of this site. Never seen any other website so systematically organized. Keep up the good work.

[Hot Trout]

Thank you, we do all work hard to keep this site ahead of the others.

[ChronoKittehz]

The issue with roms is that technically they're not really legal, but since we're not harming companies by downloading and playing roms of systems and games that are no longer bringing profit, then we're not an issue and so we're left alone. So technically, you did not pay for the game, and since you've downloaded it and are playing it, it is TECHNICALLY piracy. But again, since we're not harming the companies involved with the production of genesis or nes games (or any other systems offered here) then we're not doing anything bad enough to be targeted by the Gov't for piracy... it's a really confusing area. But as crusty said:

Personally, I do not think the rom police will bother you, if you download from the site.

He's got a point. Do not let these issues impede with your browsing, downloading, and playing of games that are no longer bringing a profit to the companies that produced them.

Myself, mind you, I've been downloading and playing roms for over 10 years, so I believe that you are completely safe from any sort of legal issue. :3

Like you said, if it's not bringing a profit to yourself from downloading and playing the games, then there is no harm being done. In fact, it's really helping the current market out because people play the original metroid and find that they like the series, so they go buy the newest one for the Wii. So because they played a game that was no longer available and they found out they liked it, it brought more revenue to the company that makes the game. :3

I'm rambling now, so I'll stop.

Many apologies for the later than normal response, but I had a few questions to ask concerning ROMs. As you can tell by my username and signature, I'm a BIG TIME Chrono Trigger fan. Obviously, this is a game that came out a while ago for the SNES, but it's made quite a few come backs to different consoles; most recently being for the iPhone (which I think is still in production). But I digress. . . while this game is older, it clearly hasn't become public domain because people are still utilizing the title/branding of the game.

So I ask: If you already OWN a physical copy of this game (say, for SNES, Nintendo DS, Wii or iPhone), is it still illegal for one to download this game for the SNES9x emulator? Also, at one point, I heard about a particular loophole where one could download the ROM legally and "delete it within 24 hours of us." Is this a REAL law or something a site owner made up? Would an intellectual property attorney know more about this? I don't know much about copyright law, so please forgive me.

Thanks in advance, everyone! Glad to be here!

[Hot Trout]

The 'delete it within 24 hours' idea is nonsense and has no bearing on any other copyright laws.

The copyright law is associated with the actual copy of the game/software. The protection of game characters, imagery, artwork and related material is a seperate issue.